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Author Topic: The Law and Self-Defense  (Read 12705 times)

norco1

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The Law and Self-Defense
« on: April 22, 2007, 10:43:54 PM »
The law, and the facts underlying a cause of Self-Defense are rarely clear-cut. Statutes and case law vary widely from jurisdiction to jurisdiction.

Prevention:

1. Avoid physical confrontation. If there is a safe avenue of retreat, use it.

2. If confrontation is inevitable, give a warning when defending yourself and property.

3. Ensure that you are not seen as the aggressor.

4. Use only the amount of force necessary to deter the attack.

5. Once the initial threat is neutralized, stop.

Remember. The use of force in the protection of self and property is very risky.

triple7allstar

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Re: The Law and Self-Defense
« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2007, 07:14:45 PM »
The timing of this topic could not have been better. I am probably going to be purchasing a fire are and getting my Concealed Weapon Permit. What options are out there for training, classes etc?

Anything that you think I should be especially aware of?

Thanks

GaryV

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Re: The Law and Self-Defense
« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2007, 07:50:10 PM »
The timing of this topic could not have been better. I am probably going to be purchasing a fire are and getting my Concealed Weapon Permit. What options are out there for training, classes etc?

Anything that you think I should be especially aware of?

Thanks


I'm assuming you are not experienced at all with firearms. If you are, some of this may not apply. There are lots of options for training and classes. Depending on your state, there may be specific legal and/or safety courses required simply to obtain your permit. They vary from state to state, and if you're not sure, there are a couple of places where you can find out:

http://www.packing.org/

http://www.handgunlaw.us/

Beyond these minimum requirements (if they even exist), you'll want to get at least some decent basic firearms training. Wherever you live, local gunshops, shooting ranges, and organizations such as the NRA will offer basic firearms safety and handling courses of various types and levels.

http://www.nrahq.org/education/training/basictraining.asp

Check out several shops and ranges in your area to see what's available. Be sure to shop around, and ask advice on shooting forums, as quality and price can vary quite a bit.

Once you are comfortable with the basics, you may want to learn some real self-defense tactics (as opposed to the unrealistic marksmanship skills of taking your time to carefully aim at non-moving, non-threatening pieces of paper). Tactical shooting schools, trainers, and facilities such as Thunder Ranch http://www.thunderranchinc.com/, Gunsite http://www.gunsite.com/, Cumberland Tactics http://cumberlandtactics.com/, and Southern Exposure http://www.southernexposuretraining.com/ offer a wide range of tactical shooting courses in which you can learn realistic self-defense techniques. Again, do some research on your own. These are just some possibilities. There are other schools, and you may have one much closer to you.

There are also other options you might want to explore. One of the best would be to find a local chapter of the International Defensive Pistol Association (IDPA) http://www.idpa.com/. They run competitions for all levels of shooters in which you shoot a "course" that simulates real-life self-defense scenarios. While some realism is given up for the sake of safety and competion, it's a great way to improve your gun-handling skills - and if you enjoy shooting, it's fun as well.

There are also a number of good books on the subject of self-defense and the use of deadly force. Check out Amazon.com or Barnes&Noble to see what fits your needs.

Whatever you do, if you are going to take the step of owning a firearm, make sure you learn gun safety and gun law inside-out ASAP.

higgledy

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Re: The Law and Self-Defense
« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2011, 10:31:02 AM »
I love and hate this topic all at the same time. I am of the thinking that if someone enters your home, and he/she refuses to leave you have the right to defend your yourself, family, and property. That said, I would not want to hurt or kill anyone.

DuaneKier

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Re: The Law and Self-Defense
« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2011, 03:47:33 AM »
most criminal will enter your home by kicking or forcibly breaching your door. Now more than citizen are searching for new ways to protect their life, loved ones and possessions from the disaster of illegal entry and theft as well as snatching. Endorsed by local law enforcement agencies everywhere, the pepper spray or stun gun is a great way to protect your home and your family. It reinforces your door frame and makes it that much harder for criminals to enter your home.

happyhacker

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Re: The Law and Self-Defense
« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2011, 03:35:46 AM »
Well, I  think a debate about how to approach an unwanted visitor would be interesting. Point 1. in the OP. Also if that person has intent to steal (and not just to attack people living there) what about offering them something if violence looks likely. What sort of discouraging noise/remarks could be issued perhaps before they are confronted directly?

mjohnsonn

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Re: The Law and Self-Defense
« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2011, 04:09:55 AM »
Quote
what about offering them something if violence looks likely. What sort of discouraging noise/remarks could be issued perhaps before they are confronted directly?

You could try threatening to call their mom.

happyhacker

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Re: The Law and Self-Defense
« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2011, 05:21:19 AM »
Try and be serious!

mjohnsonn

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Re: The Law and Self-Defense
« Reply #8 on: November 16, 2011, 12:04:14 AM »
If violence seems likely, as you have written, don't you think it best for YOU to become violent first and shut down the threat?  That is a position that would work, but I understand it is probably beyond your experience. JMO

In the real world most intruders check to make sure no one is home.  Anyone who breaks into an obviously occupied dwelling could easily be a really dangerous foaming at the mouth loon.  The kind that definitely might harm someone.  You should not take very much time to try to figure out whether or not such a person is there "just to attack people living there."  If you take too much time and it turns out they are there to harm people, it will be too late for you to do anything. JMO

Also, trying to de-escalate a situation with an obviously dangerous person may or may not work. That's the sort of behavior you might try if you have an armed team backing you up.  On the other hand, rapid escalation on your part will definitely work against a dangerous person. Since the consequences of failure might be injury or death to your family members, I think you should go with the definite solution.

JMO
« Last Edit: November 17, 2011, 08:01:54 PM by mjohnsonn »

mjohnsonn

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Re: The Law and Self-Defense
« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2011, 03:12:28 AM »
Quote
Whatever you do, if you are going to take the step of owning a firearm, make sure you learn gun safety and gun law inside-out ASAP.]Whatever you do, if you are going to take the step of owning a firearm, make sure you learn gun safety and gun law inside-out ASAP.

These are probably the best points on the thread.  I like to add that there could be some defensive situations where there isn't a lot of time to decide whether to use deadly force.  IMO it's best to not draw your gun unless you truly feel you are about to experience grave bodily injury.  That being said, if your best judgement, no matter how rapid, is that you or a loved one is about to be seriously injured or killed by someone, shouldn't you act with deadly force?  All other consequences would probably seem secondary. Sure you should only use as much force as necessary, but just how much is that?  IMO you should act until the threat is gone.

In other words, if someone is about to die, I doubt they should be worried about rules and laws.  They can ponder all the rules they may have broken, even if from jail, later.

Everyone should Bing the Tueller drill.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2011, 05:28:24 AM by mjohnsonn »

Tube Tech

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Re: The Law and Self-Defense
« Reply #10 on: November 18, 2011, 01:10:30 PM »
anyone who contemplates the need for self defense needs to read these books:

amazon.com/Gravest-Extreme-Firearm-Personal-Protection/dp/0936279001/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1321639354&sr=1-3

amazon.com/Truth-About-Self-Protection/dp/0936279133/ref=sr_1_7?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1321639354&sr=1-7

A concealed carry class like we have in New Mexico will dispel many stupid notions acquired from watching TV. everything you think you know is wrong.

Quote
1. Avoid physical confrontation. If there is a safe avenue of retreat, use it.

2. If confrontation is inevitable, give a warning when defending yourself and property.

3. Ensure that you are not seen as the aggressor.

4. Use only the amount of force necessary to deter the attack.

5. Once the initial threat is neutralized, stop.

absolutely true, and completely unworkable in a biker bar. some situations call for a grade one prison yard beat down. in some situations witness is another word for liar.

mjohnsonn

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Re: The Law and Self-Defense
« Reply #11 on: November 18, 2011, 01:58:22 PM »
Agreed. Imagine if you gave some guy with a gun a "warning" before you acted.

mjohnsonn

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Re: The Law and Self-Defense
« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2012, 05:13:25 AM »
The rules about when you should and shouldn't use deadly force can get complicated and if you make a wrong decision you could get into trouble.

How's this for a very simplified rule about when you should or shouldn't use your firearm to defend yourself?....

Just don't do it ever at all period, unless you are so threatened that you don't care what the consequences might be later in court.  If you are in that dire a circumstance, are you going to go over the rules in your head?  No, you'll want to survive.  Better to be judged by 12 than....you know the cliche.

jwaynefan

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Re: The Law and Self-Defense
« Reply #13 on: October 03, 2013, 04:31:00 AM »
The law, and the facts underlying a cause of Self-Defense are rarely clear-cut. Statutes and case law vary widely from jurisdiction to jurisdiction.

Prevention:

1. Avoid physical confrontation. If there is a safe avenue of retreat, use it.

2. If confrontation is inevitable, give a warning when defending yourself and property.

3. Ensure that you are not seen as the aggressor.

4. Use only the amount of force necessary to deter the attack.

5. Once the initial threat is neutralized, stop.

Remember. The use of force in the protection of self and property is very risky.

Like they say: better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6!

On the other hand, I realize there are some serious issues to consider when using lethal force, even if it's against a home invader.

 

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