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Author Topic: FSB-210B Smokes Won't Alarm PC1832 Panel  (Read 6518 times)

Mr.Natural

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Re: FSB-210B Smokes Won't Alarm PC1832 Panel
« Reply #15 on: July 26, 2015, 07:32:12 AM »
To simulate a normal smoke detector, I assume I'd wire a 2,200 ohm EOL resistor between Aux+ and PGM2 to avoid a fault indication, then connect a 5,600 ohm resistor in parallel with the EOL resistor to simulate an alarm condition, yes?

As to the other question, there is no indication of anything on the keypad when any addressable smoke is in violation.  The system remains in a ready-to-arm state, no faults, no nothing.  The only indication that anything is happening is that the LED on the alarming smoke blinks eight times at a two second repetition rate.

AlarmMike

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Re: FSB-210B Smokes Won't Alarm PC1832 Panel
« Reply #16 on: July 26, 2015, 08:11:07 AM »
Hmmm.  I think we're getting somewhere (maybe).

The addressable smoke detectors (FSB series) do not call for an EOLR.  I trust you have not placed one on either the smokes or on the PGM2 terminals?

Furthermore, there is no programming necessary for PGM2 so leave it as it's default "10".

My simulation test was to test as a 4-wire smoke on a zone terminal on the main board.  You indicated that the addressable AND the wireless smokes were not going into alarm, therefore, I wanted you to try it as a 4-wire test.

For 4-wire you'd wire a 5600 ohm resistor across say zone 8 and COM.  Program zone 8 as type 08 (standard hardwire fire).  In 108, only 1 should be showing.  202 option 8 on.  Then for the test, short zone 8 and COM, and it should then alarm.
1993-1995   Worked for one of the "nationals"  /  1996-Present   Independent dealer
Systems supported:   DSC, Ademco/Honeywell, ITI/GE/Interlogix
-----------------------------
To the world you may be one person, but to one person you are the world.
- Kidney transplant recipient 04/27/2011

Mr.Natural

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Re: FSB-210B Smokes Won't Alarm PC1832 Panel
« Reply #17 on: July 26, 2015, 12:08:04 PM »
First, just to be complete with my last response, when an addressable smoke is violated, there is also nothing recorded about it in the event in the event log.

No, I don't have any EOL resistors installed anywhere.  And PGM2 is at its default program setting.

I reconfigured my system to minimize any zone overlaps; i.e.,
  • Zones 1-8 are empty (so nothing overlaps unused hardwired zones 1-8 that are embedded in the PC1832).
  • Zones 9-19 are assigned to the wireless sensors (door/window, motion, glassbreak) within the PC1832.  There's no choice but to have them overlap the same unused zones on the PC5100 addressable zone expander.
  • Zones 27-32 are assigned to the addressable smoke detectors within the PC5100.  All unused zones on the PC5100 are programmed with an address of 00000.
I connected a 5.6K resistor between Zone 1 & COM, programmed zone 1 as a standard fire ([001], zone 1, type 08) and assigned it to partition 1 ([202] option 1 on).  Shorting the resistor causes a fire alarm, which latches until I clear it with an access code.  This indicates that in one situation, anyway, my panel is able to recognize a fire alarm.

I then reduced the whole smoke circuit to its simplest form.  I removed all but one detector, then connected it to the PC5100 with two short pigtails right at the panel, thus eliminating all building wiring and any interference between/among the several other smoke detectors.  Nothing changed:  setting off the one remaining detector with a magnet initiated the LED blinking sequence, but no alarm was triggered.  So now I slightly modify my previous conclusion:  either the PC5100 isn't properly passing an alarm indication to the panel (which seems unlikely, since it doesn't embody any logic to recognize or act on message content; it just acts as an interface between the devices and the main board, and all other addressing / message functions seem to be working properly), or the main board is failing to recognize an alarm condition from the PC5100 (even though it's able to recognize a fire alarm triggered on a hardwired zone).

Is there any way to simulate an alarm condition on an addressable smoke detector without the detector being in the circuit?
« Last Edit: July 26, 2015, 12:11:43 PM by Mr.Natural »

Update_My_Alarm

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Re: FSB-210B Smokes Won't Alarm PC1832 Panel
« Reply #18 on: July 26, 2015, 03:23:49 PM »
...
So now I slightly modify my previous conclusion:  either the PC5100 isn't properly passing an alarm indication to the panel (which seems unlikely, since it doesn't embody any logic to recognize or act on message content; it just acts as an interface between the devices and the main board, and all other addressing / message functions seem to be working properly), or the main board is failing to recognize an alarm condition from the PC5100 (even though it's able to recognize a fire alarm triggered on a hardwired zone).

Is there any way to simulate an alarm condition on an addressable smoke detector without the detector being in the circuit?

Still leaning towards the panel being the culprit since your WS4916 is exhibiting the same issue.  Can you leave the PC5100 out of the equation for a moment but default it, and get the WS4916 operational?  Here are my proposed steps to defaulting the PC5100:

- Default your PC5100
   - Remove all zone programming for AML devices from the panel, but leave the WS4916 programmed.
   - Section [98] - "00" (only if you modified your Panel Key)
   - Section [99] - "55"
   - ## to leave programming

WS4916 install guide indicates the following:
"Initiate test by pressing the test button for 5 seconds minimum.
Alarm activation is indicated by the flashing LED, the sounder, and
transmission of the alarm signal to the control panel. The detector
restores to normal when the test button is released."


I'd assume you'd have to hold the test button for 5 seconds to get the unit into alarm activation, but could you actually hold the Test button down for an additional, say, 10 seconds after the initial activation to ensure alarm transmission (I know, just a shot in the dark here...)?

As for your question about AML testing without the actual FSB, I would think not since it is a polled device and nothing can be done electrically (or digitally) by the user to simulate one?

Unfortunately I can't test any of this out even though my bench PC1864 has a PC5100, AMA-100, AMB-500/600, a single AMP-704 but I have no FSB devices.  >:(
« Last Edit: July 26, 2015, 03:34:46 PM by Update_My_Alarm »

AlarmMike

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Re: FSB-210B Smokes Won't Alarm PC1832 Panel
« Reply #19 on: July 27, 2015, 03:49:05 AM »
Where did you obtain the PC5100 and smokes?  Any chance you have MaxSys version of the module (should be labeled STR+ and STR- on the input terminals)?  Module tamper shunted?

Reading through the module programming, I do get a sense of programming order.  i.e. 5-digit serial numbers first.  Adding / deleting / replacing devices, etc.  Possibility of having to power panel down between steps.

I'd try and have the PC5100 warrantied first if possible.
1993-1995   Worked for one of the "nationals"  /  1996-Present   Independent dealer
Systems supported:   DSC, Ademco/Honeywell, ITI/GE/Interlogix
-----------------------------
To the world you may be one person, but to one person you are the world.
- Kidney transplant recipient 04/27/2011

Mr.Natural

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Re: FSB-210B Smokes Won't Alarm PC1832 Panel
« Reply #20 on: July 27, 2015, 10:18:14 AM »
I see we're on the same track here.

I had already defaulted the PC5100 and re-entered all the settings.  (I have issues with the [805] -> [98] panel key, but that's a topic for another thread in the DSC section.)  The only thing I hadn't tried was re-activating the WS4916 wireless smoke detector, so I gave it a shot.  It now functions properly, so it appears that the PC5100 was somehow interfering with its performance.  Now, only the addressable smokes are failing to alarm the system when tested, which points pretty strongly to the PC5100.

The loop terminals on the PC5100 are labelled "STR+" and "STR-", and yes, I have the tamper terminal shunted to COM.  I got it off eBay, so I'll contact the seller and see if I can pull an exchange.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2015, 10:33:00 AM by Mr.Natural »

Mr.Natural

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Re: FSB-210B Smokes Won't Alarm PC1832 Panel
« Reply #21 on: August 05, 2015, 01:05:53 PM »
The issue here is apparently that the FSB-210Bs respond differently than all the other flavors of smokes from DSC when tested with a magnet or with the "test on installer exit" option of the PC5100 zone expander.  In those scenarios, the FSB-201B's LED blinks eight times at a two-second repetition rate, but the panel isn't alarmed and the bell doesn't squawk.  The only way I could get the panel to alarm was to blow real smoke into the detectors.  DSC seems to feel that with these detectors, just seeing the LED blink is sufficient to give you a warm-and-fuzzy feeling that the smokes are behaving properly.  So I guess this justifies my toking on a stogie every month or so.  My wife will not be pleased.

A reference to this behavior in DSC's documentation sure would've been nice.

This has to be about the most fun I've ever had with my clothes on.

 

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