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Author Topic: Old system refresh with eol resistors  (Read 362 times)

John65

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Old system refresh with eol resistors
« on: February 27, 2017, 08:27:06 PM »
Hi, I would love some advice on this.  I'm redoing an older system.  Looking at the old panel it seems to have EOL resistors of 1k.  The new panel, Concord 4, will have resistors of 2.2k at the panel.  If the continuity of the zones seems fine can I just add 1.2k resistors at the new panel?  Does the old wire look thinner than 22 guage?  Could that be a problem or cause false alarm?  Thanks for you help.

Here is a picture:  https://goo.gl/lz9tvp
« Last Edit: February 27, 2017, 08:29:11 PM by John65 »

AlarmMike

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Re: Old system refresh with eol resistors
« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2017, 11:00:03 PM »
From the picture, it appears to be 22 gauge wire and it appears as though the EOLR's are what is inside the tape (shoddy workmanship).  If so, then it's a simple replacement of the EOLR's right there.  According to GE's manual, the Concord 4 takes 2k resistors vs. 2.2 but I'm DSC.
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John65

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Re: Old system refresh with eol resistors
« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2017, 11:41:26 PM »
OH wow.  I didn't even notice that.  I bet those are the resistors.  Thanks.  I'll check on the GE resistors.  Someone else told me they were 2.2.  Thanks again.

AlarmMike

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Re: Old system refresh with eol resistors
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2017, 12:58:05 AM »
If it is a new panel, the EOLR's will come with it, so no worries.  And it should be mentioned that for "proper" installation and supervision, the EOLR's are meant to be installed at each sensor, not at the panel.  Just should be mentioned, but others will argue the point.
To the world you may be one person, but to one person you are the world.
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ChosunOne

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Re: Old system refresh with eol resistors
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2017, 09:44:23 AM »
John, one potential problem to look out for:  The keypads for your 6112 (I think it's D636) support expansion zones taken off the keypad(s). If you have more than 8 zones in your system, you might want to check the wiring in your keypad(s) to see if their expansion zones are used. IIRC, each D636 KP can add up to 3 zones to the system. Hopefully you have a zone list somewhere to tell you what doors, windows, motion sensors, etc, are on which zones.

If you have keypad expansion zones, you'll want to be sure what provision your Concord keypads have to replace them. It's been years since I worked with a GE and I don't know what the current keypads support in the way of expansion zones....that's IF your Radionics keypads use them. 

Also--when you get around to replacing the keypads, you may notice that your new keypads will be wired differently than your old KPs. The 6112 KP data loops were wired in series, while ALL other keypad data loops that I'm aware of are wired in parallel.
(That was extremely annoying when I had to work on a 6112 system with a bad keypad: One bad keypad knocked out all the other keypads and you couldn't just disconnect it until the tech could get there. Taking a keypad out of the loop would cause the others to scream until it was replaced or the panel reprogrammed not to look for it.)

And BTW, I'm one of those techs who will argue with Mike about the need to place EOLRs out at the last contact in a zone loop. That's because I spend decades troubleshooting problems in systems. One of the trickiest problems to find is the source of an intermittent false alarm. One of my first things to check is the zone loop resistance, which CANNOT BE READ WITH THE RESISTOR IN THE LOOP. And I want to read the loop resistance BEFORE I fiddle with any contacts: Jiggling a contact can make a flaky contact resistance temporarily disappear. If I have to remove a contact from its setting to access the resistor to bypass it, then I can't be sure I haven't affected the loop resistance before reading it. When the resistor is in the panel, I can read loop resistance before examining or jiggling any individual contacts.

Unfortunately, I do have to agree that EOLRs in a commercial/institutional system do need to be placed at the last sensor in the loop, to prevent circumvention by employees and/or public; but that's usually not a concern in a private home.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2017, 09:47:23 AM by ChosunOne »

AlarmMike

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Re: Old system refresh with eol resistors
« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2017, 10:27:09 AM »
...And BTW, I'm one of those techs who will argue with Mike about the need to place EOLRs out at the last contact in a zone loop....

...Unfortunately, I do have to agree that EOLRs in a commercial/institutional system do need to be placed at the last sensor in the loop, to prevent circumvention by employees and/or public; but that's usually not a concern in a private home...

See?  I told ya!   ;)

I only mention it so DIY understand what EOLR's are used for.  Installing them in the panel is really no different than using N/C loops with no EOLR's.  And truly, for a single application, it is better to locate them correctly IF they are used.  A tech servicing 100's - 1000's of panels is a different scenario.  I for one go N/C for residential on a regular basis.
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John65

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Re: Old system refresh with eol resistors
« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2017, 11:19:44 PM »
This is some great info.  Thanks so much.

TN DIY

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Re: Old system refresh with eol resistors
« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2017, 02:36:15 AM »
Be careful as loops a & b are not 1000 ohm resistors. loop a has a 8.2k resistor used for special radionics glass break detectors and loop b has a 1.8k resistor for 2 wire smoke detectors. Also there could be tied into the keypad buss a 640 zone expansion center that may have another 8 zones.

 

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