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Author Topic: Motion Detectors Not Registering any faults on Vista 21ip  (Read 581 times)

mattlenfest

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Motion Detectors Not Registering any faults on Vista 21ip
« on: January 09, 2018, 12:57:59 PM »
Hello All! I am in need of some troubleshooting help. This is going to be a wall of text, but I am trying my best to be thorough. Here are the pictures for the install: https://imgur.com/a/d3Z3k

 I have recently installed a Honeywell Vista 21-IP Alarm panel for a friend of mine. He has all of his 8 zones except zone 1 (smoke detectors) populated on the main board. All 8 of these zones are all door contacts and they work great without any problems. Now we also have a Honeywell 4219 expander module hooked up as well. On this module there are 8 more zones. We have all 8 of these zones wired for motion detectors on each zone. Each zone is using the same identical detectors/wiring scheme (Honeywell IS3050 PIR Motion Detectors). We are not using the tamper sensor on the expander module nor are we using 2k Ohm EOL resistors at the motion detectors. We are using the 2k Ohm resistors where we land our zones at the panel, because there are other security measures at his warehouse that would keep people from gaining access to the motion detectors/door sensors to tamper with anything.

The problem lies with the motion detectors. I am not sure what is going on. They all have power and they all track motion if one walks into a room, the light comes on immediately. However none of them show any faults on the keypads when we walk in front of them, nor do they set off the alarm when it is armed. We have all of the motion detectors set to Zone Type 04 (Interior Follower). We have all of the motion detectors set to Wire Type 02 (Aux Wire). We have the 4219 expander module set for normal response time NOT fast speed. We also have the 4219's tamper reed switch disabled as well.

If I unhook zone 9(z1 on the expander board) and throw a 2k ohm resistor across the terminals and lift one leg, then I can get a fault to show on the keypad. So far so good. But if I hook up the motion detector to zone 9(z1 on the expander board) I get nothing when someone walks in front of it. I thought it might be a bad motion detector so I ordered 3 more compatible ones off of e-bay and all of them exhibited the same symptom. So I called the monitoring company and they walked me through an hour of troubleshooting and were unable to figure out the problem.

 Next I tried replacing the 4219 Expander module (because all 11 motion detectors couldn't be bad right??) Well that didn't do anything, and we got the same results as we did with the original one. I can't seem to solve this and I am going crazy trying to figure this out. I am a network engineer by trade, so wiring and programming isn't 100% foreign to me just this case seems to really have me stuck. The alarm company is unable to figure it out either and suggested that I just use my door sensors and disable the motion detectors by setting them to 00 in the *56 zone programming. I feel like that would be a waste of over half the Alarm System.Now here below is the wiring and pictures if anyone wants to check it out.Motion Detectors ( All wired identically ) These are the contacts and their wire colors at the motion detector end.

 T     T     C         NC       V-      V+
o      o     green  yellow   black   red

Main Board ( All ends of the wired zones (Motion Detectors) were identically wired to the 4219 zone expander like this:

I have all the red power wires from the motion detectors bundled together and al1 the black power wires from the motion detectors bundled together. Each bundle of wires has one lead wire leaving the bundle and landing on the main vista 21-IP board for power. Now for each of the C and NC wires I have them landing like this on the 4219 expander board.

Z1(09) - Zone 1 Yellow Line Landing on terminal 1
Z1(09) - Zone 1 Green Line Landing on terminal 2
---
Z2(10) - Zone 2 Green Line Landing on terminal 2
Z2(10) - Zone 2 Yellow Line Landing on terminal 3
---
Z3(11) - Zone 3 Green Line Landing on terminal 5
Z3(11) - Zone 3 Yellow Line Landing on terminal 4
---
Z4(12) - Zone 4 Green Line Landing on terminal 5
Z4(12) - Zone 4 Yellow Line Landing on terminal 6
---
Z5(13) - Zone 5 Green Line Landing on terminal 8
Z5(13  - Zone 5 Yellow Line Landing on terminal 7
---
Z6(14) - Zone 6 Green Line Landing on terminal 8
Z6(14) - Zone 6 Yellow Line Landing on terminal 9
---
Z7(15) - Zone 7 Green Line Landing on terminal 11
Z7(15) - Zone 7 Yellow Line Landing on terminal 10
---
Z8(16) - Zone 8 Green Line Landing on terminal 11
Z8(16) - Zone 8 Yellow Line Landing on terminal 12

 Thank you all so much for your help in advanced. Also not sure if any of you are working in the SW Florida area and want to do a side job and think you are expert enough to fix this but if you are message me and we can set something up. Zip code is 34286.Thanks,
Matt

Magnum Alert

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Re: Motion Detectors Not Registering any faults on Vista 21ip
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2018, 05:08:06 AM »
spunds like you have the bulk of this correct.  We know that the expander is operating, because disconnecting 9 gives you a fault.  What happens when you simply lift one leg of a motion detector zone?  Do you get a fault? 

One note, when arming to test motion detectors, make sure you are arming in away mode and opening and closing an entry/exit door.  Otherwise, the system will revert to stay mode, and not respond to any motion detectors while it's armed.

How exactly do you have the resistors wired?  That's about the only thing left that is logical.  They should be in series, not parallel.  Also, make sure you are using the correct resistor (red-black-red).  Older 4219 expanders use 1K (brown-black-red).


Correct:

(H)--------------------------------------  motion NC

(L)--vvvvvv----------------------------  motion C
.     resistor




Incorrect:

(H)--------------------------------------- motion NC
.   \
.   vvv     <- resistor
.   /
(L)--------------------------------------- motion C
« Last Edit: January 10, 2018, 05:12:09 AM by Magnum Alert »
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mattlenfest

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Re: Motion Detectors Not Registering any faults on Vista 21ip
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2018, 12:01:40 AM »
I have it setup like this. On Zone 9(z1) (terminal one) I have connected the screw of terminal 1 with a resistor on one side and the other side of the resistor connected to the yellow wire. The yellow wire leaves the panel and lands on the (NC)yellow wire terminal of the motion detector. Then leaves the motion detector on the Green wire(C) and heads back to the 4219 zone expander where it lands on GND(terminal 2).

Please help me to understand the HIGH and LOW zones you're talking about better. Thanks for all your help and recommendations ahead of time! I posted the pictures online for you to see https://imgur.com/a/d3Z3k

just the 4219 https://i.imgur.com/ZYhozLL.jpg
just the motion detector https://i.imgur.com/UKDJbV8.jpg

Let me know if you think I have that rigged up backwards please and thanks!

-Matt

ChosunOne

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Re: Motion Detectors Not Registering any faults on Vista 21ip
« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2018, 02:17:29 PM »
I'm bumping this thread up, hoping to find if anybody resolved it. It bothers me when everything looks right but the system still doesn't work.  As far as I was able to tell, mattlenfest shouldn't have had a problem with it. All his wiring looks correct (ignoring the people who insist that EOLRs should always go at the end of the line), the 4219 seems to be working, the PIRs don't have Form C relays to get NO and NC mixed up, everything looks right from here.

My experience with this kind of problem is that there's something simple that I'm overlooking that I'd find if I were on-site, but I can't think of here here on the internet looking at pictures.

The only thing I can think of to ask mattlenfest to check is what Magnum did: When you lift one wire off the PIR, do you get a fault on the zone?  Or alternately, are your zone loop wires somehow shorted? At this point, if I were in the field, I'd be meter-checking loop readings with the PIRs tripped and standby.

 

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