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Author Topic: New Honeywell system, advice needed (smart home)  (Read 681 times)

bigpal

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New Honeywell system, advice needed (smart home)
« on: January 27, 2018, 10:28:25 PM »
I'm a tech guy with 20 years experience in building network infrastructures. I'm building a home and I'm currently beginning the low voltage wiring, as it is currently framed and not yet drywalled.

I've already done extensive cat6 wiring, some coax, audio wiring, and wiring for led lighting. I'm over budget on my home, so I decided to take on the security system.

Bear with me, I'm new to this. My new home, like my last one, will be completely set up with z-wave/zigbee from top to bottom. I want a security system that can be incorporated into my scenes.

Part I
My current plan is to run a Vista 21IP and have it controlled by a Tuxedo. I don't want the Tuxedo to be my z-wave gateway/controller, just part of the network. That's part I.

Part II
I'm hard wiring everything, because I can. 2 and 4 wire cable is cheap and I have the time to run it. I plan to hardwire every window and door. I also plan to have window break sensors where appropriate. Overall, this is a voluminous number of sensors, since it is a 4000 sq ft house with many doors and windows. I'm thinking 25 sensors.

My questions:
If I run a tuxedo to control my Vista 21IP, should I even bother with other keypads elsewhere in the house? If so, can I go low cost on the other control pads?

I need expansions to the 21IP for the additional hardwired zones. Is this overkill? I don't like wireless. I figure I will need several expansion add-ons, which is expensive.

Do the keypads (including the tuxedo) only require a 4-wire cable?

Any other thoughts from experts is appreciated.

Please be gentle, I'm new to this. I'm going to do this myself though, I don't have the cash otherwise.

Thanks in advance for your time and help.

murphy62

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Re: New Honeywell system, advice needed (smart home)
« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2018, 06:48:27 AM »
You need a standard alpha display keypad, such as the 6160, for programming the system.
It's mandatory to get back into a system that you have accidentally locked yourself out of.
Do not ever use the installer code to operate the system.  That is what the master and user codes are for.
All first floor windows and doors should be covered.  I chose to cover all windows so with one glance at the keypad I know all of the windows are closed when I am ready to leave the house.  It is easy to run the wires to all of the windows now.  That simplifies future expansion.  Leave lots of slack in the wire at each window and label them all at both ends of the wire. 
Smart sensors; such as PIR, glass break, smoke detectors; need 4 wire cable.  2 wire smoke detectors can be installed on zone 1 but on any other zone they must be 4 wire detectors.

Do a power analysis.  You will likely need at least one expansion power supply.

bigpal

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Re: New Honeywell system, advice needed (smart home)
« Reply #2 on: January 28, 2018, 11:46:16 AM »
That's good information, thank you.

Another question... when wiring/programming, should I combine zones to save on expanders? In other words, should I run multiple window sensors in one room/area to the same zone? It would show window open, and it would be any window in the room. I would assume that's standard, since the control panel only comes with 8 zones. In fact I would assume every room sensor is wired to one zone including any doors, windows and sensors. Is that a correct assumption?

Jonathan

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Re: New Honeywell system, advice needed (smart home)
« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2018, 01:43:45 PM »
I suggest you read the installation manual for each type of sensor you're going to install. There are specific placement guidelines for glassbreaks, motions, smoke detectors, heat detectors etc. It would behoove you to know those placement guidelines before the drywall goes up and you're out of luck.

I've had good experiences with the Honeywell FG1625 line of GB's. I also recommend dual tech motion detectors such as the Honeywell DT8035. Dual tech motions are more reliable and less prone to false alarms when compared to a standard PIR detector. In addition, the DT8035 can be configured for 100lb pet immunity with a flip of a dip switch.

murphy62

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Re: New Honeywell system, advice needed (smart home)
« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2018, 01:45:06 PM »
It depends on how good you are at debugging problems. 
If you have 6 windows on one zone the panel can't tell you which window is open.

More importantly, a smoke detector needs to accurately identify which one it is so you know without question where the problem is located.  I only have one hardwired smoke detector.  The other 7 are wireless so there is no problem since wireless can only have one per zone.

You do not want a smoke detector on the same zone as a window sensor.  The panel has to be able to tell the central office whether to dispatch the fire department or the police department.

I have 48 zones in use in my house, 8 hardwired and 40 wireless.  Wireless is way more expensive but the house is over 60 years old and hard wiring was not an option.

If only one cable goes to a room and a fault can't be cleared, and all of the wiring in the room is behind the walls, how do you find the failed sensor?  With a home run for each sensor it can be debugged at the panel.  Even if you put multiple sensors on a zone make it easy on yourself by home running all of the sensors to the panel.  They can be put in series at the panel if that is what you want.


Flyct

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Re: New Honeywell system, advice needed (smart home)
« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2018, 06:26:37 PM »
Do yourself a favor and run 4 wire to every sensor.  That way you will have spare wires in case you get a break or short in one wire.

Another recommendation is for your programming keypad buy a 6160RF.  That way if you decide for some unknown reason you need to install a wireless device you will be all set.

My 1996 built house has 35 windows of which 10 are fixed windows.  The original alarm has 6 zones with daisy chained wiring and NOT home run.
 
All entrance doors on one zone
All 4 motion detectors on a single zone
25 windows daisy chained onto 3 zones.
7 sliding glass doors onto a single wired zone.

None of it was home run. 

We had new windows installed. The installers were careful buy they messed up 1 window zone and the sliding glass door zone.  I have a 6160RF keypad so I added wireless on:
6 windows that were no longer working
7 sliding glass doors
a wireless talking keypad in the master bathroom.
9 wireless smoke detectors.

So i Have 3 keypads (6160RF, 6160, and 6128RF)

Also have a Vista Automation Module VAM.  I use this for limited Z-wave scenes. It controls landscapes lights to turn on at sunset till 11 PM.  Turn on house lights when alarm is disarmed between sunset and sunrise. Automatically arm the alarm in Stay mode at midnight if I forget to set the alarm before going to bed.




bigpal

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Re: New Honeywell system, advice needed (smart home)
« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2018, 10:42:05 AM »
Thanks for the advice. I think I'm on the right track, but I heard quite a few things here that I didn't know about, so that's good.

I will update the thread in case anyone is interested, in terms of a DIY job.

bigpal

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Re: New Honeywell system, advice needed (smart home)
« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2018, 09:27:55 PM »
I finished all of my low voltage wiring today. That including 31 home runs using 4-conductor cable. That is made up of glass break sensors, PIR sensors, and window/door sensors. I also wired for 3 control panels, doubt I'll use all three though.

Another question:
The window/door sensors speak for themselves, but is there a good method of accessing the 4-conductor wire beneath the drywall after the house is finished? I had planned to just measure the "coordinates" of the cable for my PIR sensors and glass break sensors. I didn't want to do low voltage gang boxes because the sensors are quite smaller (I'm doing the 1" Honeywell FG-1625RFM glass breaks) than the large electrical boxes.

Is there a standard procedure, like doing a mud ring or other box beneath the dry wall?


AlarmMike

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Re: New Honeywell system, advice needed (smart home)
« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2018, 02:49:11 AM »
Spike a nail where you want the device and pigtail the wire around it.

Another option is zig zag the wire between two studs with lightly placed staples.  You can then poke a hole and fish it out.  But I prefer the nail method for small holes.
1993-1995   Worked for one of the "nationals"  /  1996-Present   Independent dealer
Systems supported:   DSC, Ademco/Honeywell, ITI/GE/Interlogix
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ChosunOne

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Re: New Honeywell system, advice needed (smart home)
« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2018, 09:16:22 AM »
My preferred method is to zig-zag or circle the 22/4 cable on one stud, with staples (T-25 for 22/4), and then snip the staples on one side with diagonal pliers.  The snipped staples are rigid enough to hold the cable in place until the cable is pulled, and then they will bend and release.  I recommend experimenting on a loose 2x4 to see the best way to do that.

mogbill

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Re: New Honeywell system, advice needed (smart home)
« Reply #10 on: March 19, 2018, 08:05:56 AM »
This is off the current path a bit, but you say you are in the prewire stage at your new home.  I did not see you list fiber in your list of what you are putting in.  Do not forget to put in fiber where it might be needed in the future.

Pick a incoming spot close to your utilities and cable/DTV and add a box for the incoming then run it generously around the home with wall bo x access and perhaps some documented blind - in the wall - drops.

This will come in your houses near lifetime and now is the time to do it.

B

 

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