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Author Topic: Ademco: Moving "Door" from One Zone to Another Doesn't Work  (Read 929 times)

murphy62

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Re: Ademco: Moving "Door" from One Zone to Another Doesn't Work
« Reply #15 on: February 24, 2018, 11:05:09 AM »
Does this sensor have a plunger that the edge of the door pushes in when the door is closed?  Push it in by hand to see if that makes the circuit switch.

If it doesn't have a plunger is their a magnet embedded in the door opposite the sensor?

It's a simple switch.  It's either mechanically activated or magnetically activated.

Tell us what you have.  You can't give us too much information.  A picture would help a lot.

paintslinger

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Re: Ademco: Moving "Door" from One Zone to Another Doesn't Work
« Reply #16 on: February 24, 2018, 12:54:32 PM »
It's a magnetic sensor.

Just for grins, we added the other patio door (swinging) to this same zone, zone 3.  It has the same type of magnetic sensor.  We do show connectivity but the door doesn't chime.  All four of my doors have the same type magnetic sensor, the sensors on the patio doors are a little larger in diameter than the entry and garage entry doors, the doors that chime.  The sensors that aren't chiming are 1/2" across, the sensors that do chime are smaller by 1/16".

The cream colored door jamb is on my patio door.  The white door jamb is the one that chimes, front entry. 



~paintslinger
« Last Edit: February 24, 2018, 01:02:54 PM by paintslinger »

Flyct

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Re: Ademco: Moving "Door" from One Zone to Another Doesn't Work
« Reply #17 on: February 24, 2018, 01:16:57 PM »
I have connectivity with the door opened and closed.  We didn't see a break in the wire from the door jamb to the truss.  Does this mean our sensor is bad?  How do we go about replacing it?  It's recessed into the door jamb and we are definitely inexperienced.

~paintslinger

What do you mean by “I have connectivity”.  Did you use an multimeter and check resistance with door open and closed?

murphy62

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Re: Ademco: Moving "Door" from One Zone to Another Doesn't Work
« Reply #18 on: February 24, 2018, 01:46:04 PM »
Is there a magnet on the door that lines up with that sensor when the door is closed?

Magnetic sensors have been known to have their contacts welded together by the field from a nearby lightning strike.

AlarmMike

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Re: Ademco: Moving "Door" from One Zone to Another Doesn't Work
« Reply #19 on: February 24, 2018, 02:06:59 PM »
If you think the issue is a bad contact, you'll need to remove the contact from the door frame.  Being that yours is painted over, it will be a little more difficult.

First, try and cut the paint around the contact.  Then with either small needle nose pliers or small screwdriver, you'll need to CAREFULLY pry the contact out, sliding it straight down SLOWLY.  You don't know what type of contact it is, but most likely it is a splice type with wire leads that are spliced to the cable running to the panel.  If you're lucky it will be one with terminals where the cable is connected directly to the contact.  In any event, slowly slide the contact out.  It will be 1-2" long.

Once you get to the wires, then continue SLOWLY pulling it out until you get to the splice.  You may need to stick a small screwdriver in there to jiggle the wires around if you encounter resistance.

The big risk is that if you pull too hard, the wire / splice can break off and you're left with a contact in your hand and the wire buried in the wall.  If that happens, you may be able to remove the door molding and fish the wire out through the gap of the door frame and header.
1993-1995   Worked for one of the "nationals"  /  1996-Present   Independent dealer
Systems supported:   DSC, Ademco/Honeywell, ITI/GE/Interlogix
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To the world you may be one person, but to one person you are the world.
- Kidney transplant recipient 04/27/2011

paintslinger

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Re: Ademco: Moving "Door" from One Zone to Another Doesn't Work
« Reply #20 on: February 24, 2018, 04:39:09 PM »
Yes, we did use a multimeter and it shows the line is good.

Yes, there is a magnet inset in the top of all of the doors.

Quote
Magnetic sensors have been known to have their contacts welded together by the field

I don't understand what is being said here...is the contact what's in the door's jamb (what I've been calling a sensor)? and where is the field?   It's possible there was a past lighting strike and a previous owner fixed the front and garage entry doors but not the patio doors.

After I pull the sensor out then what do I do?  Don't I need another sensor to go in it's place so I don't lose the wire?  How do I identify the sensor I have for replacement?  This is an ADT system, are there standard parts, ie all magnetic sensors are the same as long as the diameter is correct?  This system was installed 5/24/2002.

Thank you all for your help. 

~paintslinger

murphy62

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Re: Ademco: Moving "Door" from One Zone to Another Doesn't Work
« Reply #21 on: February 24, 2018, 05:41:21 PM »
Is the magnet very close to the sensor when the door is closed?
When the door is open there should be infinite resistance between the wires for the zone.  When the door is closed there should be almost 0 resistance between the wires.  It won't be 0 since the wires have resistance.
I'm assuming the EOL resistors were not installed at the sensors where they belong.  That would change the readings.

If you are showing close to 0 ohms when the door is open, the contacts in the sensor are fused together.  A nearby lightning strike sends out a huge electric field which induces current flow in any closed circuits it encounters.  The sensor contacts are not designed to handle more than a few milliamperes.  They can get welded together which destroys the sensor.

Here is a sensor like your picture.

https://amazon.com/uxcell-Recessed-Security-Contacts-Magnetic/dp/B005CFQ1L0/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1519511725&sr=8-3&keywords=recessed+alarm+sensors

The same hard wired sensors are used for all alarm panels.  Much bigger ones are used when the door and jamb are made of steel.

AlarmMike

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Re: Ademco: Moving "Door" from One Zone to Another Doesn't Work
« Reply #22 on: February 25, 2018, 01:21:10 AM »
It it's also possible that the switch is compressed closed if the switch was hammered into place by the installer, or if the door frame has swollen over the years.
1993-1995   Worked for one of the "nationals"  /  1996-Present   Independent dealer
Systems supported:   DSC, Ademco/Honeywell, ITI/GE/Interlogix
-----------------------------
To the world you may be one person, but to one person you are the world.
- Kidney transplant recipient 04/27/2011

paintslinger

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Re: Ademco: Moving "Door" from One Zone to Another Doesn't Work
« Reply #23 on: February 25, 2018, 02:31:35 PM »
I think I may have misstated earlier.  There is near 0 resistance with the doors open.  This is where I'm getting confused and passing my confusion on to the group.  I'm told the line is good, there is conductivity, so it's assumed the problem is at the sensor.

That being said, the distance between the door and door jamb is about 1/4".  The contacts do line up.  I don't know if the switch is compressed, the shape is round and not distorted.

I believe my door is metal and jamb is wood.

I'm going to have to table this for a few days, while we close on another house in a different city.  I'll order the sensors so I can have them on hand when we start this up again.  I've added a new topic asking if I can use a Honeywell 6160 keypad with a DSC system while I get it set up.  If anyone can help with that one, please respond to that topic.  We are on the road tomorrow to go to the new house.

I really appreciate all of your help!

~paintslinger

paintslinger

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Re: Ademco: Moving "Door" from One Zone to Another Doesn't Work
« Reply #24 on: March 04, 2018, 05:34:01 PM »
Genius!  Excellent tutorial AlarmMike!!!  We were able to dislodge the sensors but not able to pull the wire all the way down to the splice.  It looks like the installer caulked the hole on both doors up in the attic and we couldn't dislodge the caulk.  We cut off the sensor and spliced on the new one and it works!  I know, two splices on one line is not ideal but we couldn't think of another alternative.

Thank you!!!

~paintslinger

AlarmMike

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Re: Ademco: Moving "Door" from One Zone to Another Doesn't Work
« Reply #25 on: March 04, 2018, 06:05:43 PM »
Your welcome.  Glad it's working again for you.
1993-1995   Worked for one of the "nationals"  /  1996-Present   Independent dealer
Systems supported:   DSC, Ademco/Honeywell, ITI/GE/Interlogix
-----------------------------
To the world you may be one person, but to one person you are the world.
- Kidney transplant recipient 04/27/2011

 

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