Products on www.Shieldlab.com


Alarm Monitoring

Alarm Monitoring

PPC Ad

Trustpilot Badge >

Women's Self Defense

Women's Self Defense

Members Online

125 Guests, 0 Users

Author Topic: Cellular Communicator Options for Vista/SA4142AD panel?  (Read 337 times)

drose25

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Cellular Communicator Options for Vista/SA4142AD panel?
« on: January 20, 2019, 06:35:36 PM »
Hi Everyone,

I'm wondering if anyone can tell me what the options are for connecting an Ademco Vista 40 system (board number is SA4142AD) to cellular monitoring, if any?  I understand there are various cellular communicator adapters out there but I'm having trouble getting reliable answers as to what will and won't work.  Mostly I'm getting sales people who don't know what they are talking about and give me conflicting information. 

I'd really love to be able to keep transmitting zone fault information to the monitoring company, for example, but one company told me their solution would basically only say the alarm had tripped and not indicate which zone had faulted.  I could live with that but it's sub-optimal.

Also, if you're in the DFW area and actually work on these systems, I'd love to hear from you.  I'd like to find a local company familiar with this equipment. 

Thanks!
« Last Edit: January 20, 2019, 06:44:03 PM by drose25 »

Magnum Alert

  • Pro-Tech Advisor/Moderator
  • Security Guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 3451
  • Karma: +178/-0
  • NICET Certified - Fire Alarm Systems - #121764
    • View Profile
Re: Cellular Communicator Options for Vista/SA4142AD panel?
« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2019, 10:04:59 PM »
So, here's the thing.  Ademco's cellular network, Alarmnet, has communicators that *normally* just connect to the 4-wire keypad bus of the panel.  Except for the Vista-40 and Vista-50 systems, they will not work like that.  In order to use Alarmnet on these, they want you to configure the radio for bell trigger mode, and connect it to the bell output terminal.  Steady voltage = burglary signal sent, pulsing voltage = fire.  Anything that does not trigger the siren, like a silent panic, duress, medical, trouble, auxiliary alarm, etc, will not be transmitted.  Other manufacturers like the Uplink "EZ" series also are "bell trigger" types, and I absolutely hate them.  It's a false sense of security for the customer, since only two of the many events can be reported.   Bell trigger goes back to the days when alarm systems were on landlines and the cellular was just a fallback option if the line was cut.  Most of the newer Alarmnet radios like the "X" series (CDMA-X, GSMX4G, etc) don't even have a bell trigger mode.

But, you DO have other options.  You can use ANY communicator that does "dialer capture", which is pretty much anything.  These are universal cellular communicators that connect to the panel's telephone line terminals in place of a phone line, and they give the panel a dummy dial tone when it goes off hook to dial.  The radio captures the data and transmits it to the central station.  Dialer capture radios are pretty much a standard thing today, Uplink makes them, Telguard makes models like the TG-1 Express that work great, Napco Starlink is another model.  We use a little thing called an M2M, they go inside the panel and an antenna sticks on top, they take seconds to install. 

If your alarm company wants to use Alarmnet, you can still make your Vista-40 do full reporting of all events.  They can get you a DCID module.  This connects to the panel's phone line terminals, and connects to any Alarmnet radio.  When the panel dials, the DCID module captures the Contact ID data and sends it to the Alarmnet radio.  This basically allows them to install an Alarmnet radio on any panel.

Most of these require that the panel be set to transmit in Contact ID format - which is what your Vista-40 is likely already set to.  I once put a DSC 3G3070 dialer capture radio on a Vista-50 and it has been working fine for over 5 years now.

So, you DO have many options to get your system transmitting full data over cellular.  If your alarm company wants to get you a "bell trigger" type, or says that your Vista-40 is "too old", I would dump them.  Either they don't know that dialer capture is a universal thing to pretty much any panel, or they don't care, or they want to talk you into a full system upgrade that you don't really need. 

I could never do sales as a career, I'm way too honest.  I once worked for a "small local" company that wanted to incessantly push upgrades onto every customer at every service call and I got sick of hearing it, and heard it from customers who had another tech out who was trying to push them into an upgrade.  People don't want a company that is always trying to sell them something at every corner.   Where is DFW?

« Last Edit: January 22, 2019, 10:15:51 PM by Magnum Alert »
Specializing in Ademco, DSC, DMP, Moose, Napco, and GE Concord and NetworX.
NICET certified - #121764
VESDA certified designer/installer.

AlarmMike

  • Administrator
  • Security Guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 1511
  • Karma: +5/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Cellular Communicator Options for Vista/SA4142AD panel?
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2019, 12:17:17 AM »
Dallas / Fort Worth
1993-1995   Worked for one of the "nationals"  /  1996-Present   Independent dealer
Systems supported:   DSC, Ademco/Honeywell, ITI/GE/Interlogix
-----------------------------
To the world you may be one person, but to one person you are the world.
- Kidney transplant recipient 04/27/2011

proxybox

  • Gold Member
  • **
  • Posts: 19
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • I'm a llama!
    • View Profile
Re: Cellular Communicator Options for Vista/SA4142AD panel?
« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2019, 01:55:56 PM »
I purchased, formerly Ipdatatel now Alula, alarm communicator which was recommended by Alarm Relay, my monitoring company. It works great. When I bought it only 3G was available and is pretty slow. My buddy just bought the LTE version for his house and it is really fast. Installing it was a piece of cake. At first, I didn't use the ethernet jack but now that I have my mobile app works really fast. Relying on 3G as a primary was way too slow. The LTE version has no issues.

The mobile app has been great and I'm able to use the virtual keyboard.

drose25

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Cellular Communicator Options for Vista/SA4142AD panel?
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2019, 03:07:16 PM »
Magnum, thanks for taking the time to write that thorough reply!  It was exactly what I needed to know and I greatly appreciate it.  It confirms what I suspected from my own searches but wasn't entirely sure of.  Now I can at least speak from an educated position when I call around.  Now to find a company in Dallas to install one and monitor it.  We have Monitronics currently but they've been completely clueless any time I asked about doing this.

Magnum Alert

  • Pro-Tech Advisor/Moderator
  • Security Guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 3451
  • Karma: +178/-0
  • NICET Certified - Fire Alarm Systems - #121764
    • View Profile
Re: Cellular Communicator Options for Vista/SA4142AD panel?
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2019, 06:03:39 PM »
Yeah, dump the nationals, go with a smaller, local dealer.   At the very least, you're more likely to get a salesperson who has a clue, instead of a corporate "account specialist" who only sells from a piece of paper, and usually cookie cutter systems.

Salespeople for what we do NEED NEED NEED to have SOME knowledge of how the equipment works so the proper solution and proper equipment can be offered to the customer.
Specializing in Ademco, DSC, DMP, Moose, Napco, and GE Concord and NetworX.
NICET certified - #121764
VESDA certified designer/installer.

AlarmMike

  • Administrator
  • Security Guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 1511
  • Karma: +5/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Cellular Communicator Options for Vista/SA4142AD panel?
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2019, 07:03:25 PM »
Training for a salesman...  Install and program a system with a dual-path LTE/IP communicator, Z-Wave and multi-camera access.   THEN you can sell.
1993-1995   Worked for one of the "nationals"  /  1996-Present   Independent dealer
Systems supported:   DSC, Ademco/Honeywell, ITI/GE/Interlogix
-----------------------------
To the world you may be one person, but to one person you are the world.
- Kidney transplant recipient 04/27/2011

tomedjo

  • Gold Member
  • **
  • Posts: 22
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Cellular Communicator Options for Vista/SA4142AD panel?
« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2019, 11:51:14 AM »
Hi Magnum --

Quick clarification  . . . You say the 4-wire ECP connections won't work on HW, except the 40 and 50. So, this won't work on a 20p? Then, you say the "x" models do work. Sorry, I'm confused.

I was considering adding an LTE-XA or IGSMV4G to my 20p, but was told to wait for the soon-to-be-released HW dual-path replacement for the IGSMV4G. I see the IGSMV4G uses the ECP connection you mentioned, but then it also can be installed with additional power and a proprietary backup battery. I would much rather use the long-run backup I already have on my 20p to also power the communicator. This would give me weeks in a power outage, rather than the mere 24 hours in this dinky battery. The installation instructions say to jump one of the ECP terminals to one of the communicator's power terminals to to use in ULC mode. Now I'm wondering if this somehow converts the IGSMV4G to bell mode without all the normal communications.

Thanks for all your kind observations and advice.

Magnum Alert

  • Pro-Tech Advisor/Moderator
  • Security Guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 3451
  • Karma: +178/-0
  • NICET Certified - Fire Alarm Systems - #121764
    • View Profile
Re: Cellular Communicator Options for Vista/SA4142AD panel?
« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2019, 06:21:03 PM »
4-wire ECP communications on Alarmnet units will work on all 20P panels and just about anything recent, as sole/primary communications.  There have been the oddball First Alert 145c and some other older Ademco panels where Alarmnet is backup only.  But for the most part, all Vista panels except the 40 and 50 will do ECP communications to an Alarmnet.

There is already a dual path, it's the IPGSMV4G.  I own one, they're not new.  That will connect to your 20P's ECP bus.  You can use the supplied transformer and 6v backup battery, but it isn't totally necessary.  You can power it from your 20P's aux power output (make sure you do the proper power calculations to make sure you're not overloading the panel).  Leave terminals 1 and 2 for the AC transformer unused, wire the 4-wire ECP to 3, 4, 5, 6.  Remember that the data wires are flipped, so it will be yellow then green instead of green then yellow.  Then install a jumper wire between terminals 1 and 3.  That will make the radio run off of ECP power.  Don't use the supplied backup battery. 

Jumpering the AC input to the 12v terminal just forces it to power up.  It will still be a full data communicator.
Specializing in Ademco, DSC, DMP, Moose, Napco, and GE Concord and NetworX.
NICET certified - #121764
VESDA certified designer/installer.

 

Powered by EzPortal